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May god forgive us for what we are about to do! Fracking. Is it really such a big deal?


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#1 james

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 10:48 PM

I am wondering if it possible to have a mature debate over something so emotive.

 

In the U.K. Fracking (http://simple.wikipe...g/wiki/Fracking) is BIG news right now.

There is a ton of hype about how good it is for us (mainly from those who have a vested interest in saying so) and an equal amount of negativity surrounding the topic.

 

I really am concerned that it just seems wrong to be fracturing the earth and feel we haven't learned our lessons from the past and that we should be nurturing the hand that feeds us rather than biting it off in chunks.

 

O.K. That's my opinion but I am totally ignorant as to what the real effects may or may not be in both the long and the short term but that's just me. Or is it? Does anyone really KNOW what effect this is going to have on the planet not just our country, after all we hear of nuclear missile tests and there never seems to be any (public at least) knowledge of any damage whatsoever and they are supposed to be pretty destructive things.

 

I do also believe that whatever we do nature will always win and we are totally helpless in the grand scheme of things to alter anything much when the whole universe is taken into account. So is it such a big deal?

 

I don't really know. I just have an uneducated opinion but I am interested in what you think?


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#2 Jemagee

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 10:53 PM

I don't know much about fracking - it's a big deal in the US too - but here's something you said

 

I really am concerned that it just seems wrong to be fracturing the earth and feel we haven't learned our lessons from the past and that we should be nurturing the hand that feeds us rather than biting it off in chunks.

 

Everything humans do as we evolved into civilizations is 'wrong' in terms of treating the earth - building homes - cutting down trees - we intrude upon the earth constantly and completely - and - honestly - with necessity - without intruding upon the earth you wouldn't have the computer you're using or the internet to use.

 

The only true way to save the planet (in the short term, cause long term, well, all stars burn out inevitably) is to eliminate the human race from it. 

 

I have no particular opinion on fracking, it's terrible for the planet, but so is drilling for oil, mining coal, natural gas, and any other fuel source we use to keep ourselves warm and bathed



#3 james

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:06 PM

Ouch! I deserved that :).

 

Jemagee I do agree with what you say and I find myself in the unusual position of being rather confused over the whole thing. I am wondering why fracking bothers me so much.

 

I was brought up in a world where drilling for oil, chopping down trees (Now destroying rainforests is just plain wrong and totally unneccessary but that's a different subject) is normal. Perhaps because these things are not new then it isn't news and therefore acceptable?

 

Is the reason I am really bothered by Fracking only because I don't like change (Few programmers like change but that's again a different subject)?


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#4 Jemagee

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:11 PM

James

 

I don't think you deserved anything, honest, I was just expressing my opinion as the way I see it.  While it may be science fiction - if you've seen the matrix you've heard the parasite speech - humans are a parasite on the planet - its'  not symbiotic - we take from the earth and we really have nothing to give back - we reproduce like bunnys - but more so - and have no respsect for what the earth offers and don't give back - as a species - and try as we might to be more 'earth friendly' every breath we take - ever step we take - damages the earth - inherently - plus - again - epoch wise - we are a blip on a planet that is doomed to 'die' at some point anyway.

 

See, i don't mind change, i love change, the technological revolution which my generation lived through from the inflection point of being old enough to remember 'no computers' but young enough to have adjusted to new technologies - I love it - i remember my commodore 64 and atari 2600 fondly but i love my mac book pro and play station 3 (and dear god I want one of those new pencil cup holder mac pro's - those are obscene)

 

How can a programmer fear change - every line you write changes something - refactoring is changing - yo've written something that works and yet you're going to change it to make it more efficient.

 

Drilling for oil is necessary - like i said - we need things to survive as a species - i'm not saying it's right or wrong - or that corporations don't have ulterior motives - and maybe there is enough oil to last a life times life times - i don't know - but we do need these things



#5 james

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:28 PM

I guess we are from the same era or there abouts.

How can a programmer fear change

I didn't mean a fear of change, I meant a dislike of change. it's a symptom of Aspurgers. Most programmers are somewhere on the autistic spectrum whether they realise it or not. It's why there are fewer women into programming. They are less susceptible to Aspurgers as well as the battles they have to fight to get into a male dominated arena it's a wonder there are any female programmers at all. But that again is another controversial subject.

 

I find myself weirdly reassured by your response but not convinced that we do actually need these things :)

 

Looking forward to getting my new Raspberry Pi :)


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#6 Jemagee

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:33 PM

Sure - but you grew up in the UK so you got to see HELLA more Dr Who (and red dwarf and spaced and black adder and black books) then i ever got to see in my formative years - so i just lament the early death of Misfits of Science (shut up - it was AWESEOME)

I know very little about 'real' aspergers - i know it's a very popular tool on modern American TV (Boston Legal, The Big Bang Theory, The Bridge, Parenthood) it's pretty trendy - my understanding of it is limited to a few aspects of detachment - and the need for routine is very common i many autistic diagnoses.

 

I'm ADHD (biologically) and depressed (environmentally) so I have my own issues - but i don't fear change - and i think i have a pretty creative mind -you'll find that while i don't know the programming code all the time i know the general 'principles' of OOP needed to solve most problems :)

 

The next time you turn on your lights, or take a hot shower, or get in your car, train, bus, moped - think about the fact that without industry - oil companies - gas companies - electric companies - you woudlnt' ahve any of those things (and yeah I realize that the UK utiltites and infrastructure are pretty messed up cause the government controlled them for WAY too long and that your cell phone plans are absolutely bollox but even so - without them - what would you have?)



#7 james

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:45 PM

without them - what would you have?

 

 

crawls back into my cave with my flint and kindling.

 

So you are arguing that fracking is needed in order for the advancement of the human race?

 

Everything comes at a cost. I believe there is so much power to be had from natural reneable energy that we don;t need fracking we need new technology.

 

Yes renewable energy is expensive but then isn;t that the case for all new technologies? I remember paying £300 for a new CD player when they first came out!

 

I am wondering how much fracking has to do with greed rather than need


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#8 Jemagee

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:49 PM

I'm not arguing in favor of fracking, no - i don't know enough about fracking to have an informed intelligent position (and most people who argue about it don't really)

Natural Renewable energy isn't as easy to set up as it sounds because you can't build it all from scratch you have to integrate it into the existing infrastructure, or it won't work, and on an island such as yours - yes wind farms probably would do very well - (and create a lot of jobs in a country that i hear needs them) but in middle america - wind farms don't work as well

 

And yes - GREED exist - and greed mostly sucks - but once again - without greed (which is human derive, ingenuity, etc...) you wouldn't have your computers etc...no one creatied these things out of the goodness of their own hearts - mostly they were created so that people could make money - make profit.

 

Renewable energy is expensive - but that's not really the problem - it's that it doesn't solve problems - not really - electric cars are great - except they only get 100 miles on a charge - i have a coworker who would love an electric car except he couldn't make it to and from work on as single charge - it's not about cost - it's about efficiency - the 'old' ways work better - in time - when the renewable tevhnologies catch up - maybe they'll take over - but tehy are currently mostly nascent and inefficient



#9 james

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:57 PM

Yeah, the UK needs Rain Power :) My god we'd be the richest country in the world if we had that!


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#10 AstonJ

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 12:40 AM

I agree with much of what you have said - I wish we would stop screwing the planet.

 

There are other ways. Wind farms are not an eye-sore to me, but a beautiful reminder that humans can work with the planet. They can also be taken down when other, better energy production technology becomes available.

 

With regards to greed, don't get me started!


:)





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